+

A look on HP's website leaves me wondering if the "HP-branded iPod" is really going to be an Apple-branded iPod sold by HP. (The HP home page even features the Apple logo.) It appears more like the latter; regardless, does it matter who sells more iPods: Apple or HP? They're still iPod sales, after all.

http://www.hp.com/

....<gasp> EXACTLY THE SAME as a regular iPod! After all the suspense, the big news is: it's a white friggin' iPod. So why it the world will it sell MORE than the "Apple" version? It's not even BLUE as people predicted, which would have at least made it uniquely HP's.

I don't get it... And where in the heck did Rob hear "the expectation on the iPod" predictions from?!

-Ken P

PS: Well, the iPod printable tatoos that HP will be offering are kinda cool, but I don't need to buy THEIR iPod to get those! Check out the press release at:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2004/digitalexplaunch/music.html

I wouldn't be so quick to say that HP's iPod is going to sell more or less units than the standard Apple variety. The greatly expanded retail presesence that HP brings to the table could be enough in itself to sell more units than Apple. Also, take into consideration how many more computers HP sells than Apple; those customers may well buy an iPod with their new computer instead of ordering it seperately from Apple.

Furthermore, it's not like this would be a bad thing. Apple is still making money, while increasing brand recognition (not that the iPod isn't already the Kleenex of mp3 players).

So, to summarize, it is entirely possible that HP sells more than Apple... and YAY if they do!

And maybe he'll go away. He gets his name on this website about as much as the Kennedy's do on MSNBC.

The more iPods Apple sells the happier Apple will be. The only time Apple benefits is when you buy one directly from the Apple Store - all other sales are to resellers, including HP.

The other nice thing is that Apple can count each iPod shipped to HP as a "sale", meaning that Apple will always be ahead of HP in sales. Rob is a bit further off this time than he usually is - which is something in itself. Only RC will agree with him.

Still a vapor lock in channel inventory

I want a job like that! I want to be able to just make stuff up be constantly wrong and still be paid. It's not fair!!

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Guest wrote:
I want a job like that! I want to be able to just make stuff up be constantly wrong and still be paid. It's not fair!!

No doubt RC is on his payroll!

Reports from Mac fanboys that 4G iPod quality problems are isolated have been proven false.

Check the facts:
http://www.ipodlounge.com/ipodnews_comments.php?id=4753_0_7_0_M

ipodlounge reports that 42% of 4G iPods have audio problems, and that's not the only quality problem reported.

HP was smart not to put its logo on these lemons.

HP use to be the dynasty of corporate America, now they are really a loser company even Dell makes them look bad.

Why would Apple want to tarnish their reputation by dealing with HP? Apple be careful!

I use to work at the Boise site, now it is almost deserted. Lots of good people there fell victim to bad management.

But they DID put their logo on them.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Reports from Mac fanboys that 4G iPod quality problems are isolated have been proven false.

Years ago Orson Welles did a famous radio broadcast of War of the Worlds. Some people (the most gullible among us) actually believed aliens were attacking the earth. Some people reportedly took out rifles and began shooting at the sky in the hopes of stopping the alien invasion.

It’s kind of the same thing here. Intelligence truly is a gift. I've long believed the less astute among us will look for problems and conspiracy theories wherever they might go. It's easier than trying to adapt to a sometimes complex world they can't understand. In the case of the Orsen Wells broadcast the less astute began shooting at the sky. The more astute chose to separate fact from fiction.

The computer world is changing. We can either adapt and make use of the emerging products and technologies or remain ignorant and seek comfort in rumors, conspiracy theories and self-created illusions.

The iPod is changing the way people purchase and use music. The astute among us will embrace the change. The less astute will seek comfort in half-truths, conspiracy theories and just about anything they hear that supports their antediluvian ideas. Their ignorance is revealed with every comment they make.

In other words, stupid people have a way of saying stupid things. In the case of RealityCheck it happens over and over again. Nothing learned, nothing gained. A waste of space. This is all RealityCheck's version of shooting at the sky.

edited to fix typos

They'll be rebranding Kenmore washing machines next up...

and yes HP even makes Dell look good!!

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Guest wrote:
I want a job like that! I want to be able to just make stuff up be constantly wrong and still be paid. It's not fair!!

Try the Weather Channel

-Ken P

What does it matter which party sells more of which? Either way, Apple's brand is still in the picture and Apple gets a piece of each iPod sold by HP. This is all about Apple revenue and market share of an Apple-created and Apple-controlled product. Do you want the REAL story here? Okay -- here goes:

If Enderle is right in his speculations, then it means that overnight the iPod market share will skyrocket beyond its already high level and that in short order (I would estimate within a year or 18 months, if Enderle is correct) the installed base of the iPod will more than double as well.

THIS is the truly big story here -- not which company sells more than which.

Can you imagine this mentality applied to any other company? In regard to the Windows OS, for example, consider that Microsoft wins whether Dell sells more Windows computers or HP does -- they are still all Microsoft sales at the end of the day. And so it is with the iPod. Enderle is just a reflexive naysayer who has a gift for missing the REAL story.

Jeff Mincey

DawnTreader couldn't refute the ipodlounge survey results that proved 4G iPod quality problems are widespread, so he goes into a rant about Orsen Wells. Talk about shooting at the sky.

This is another gigantic I told you so. Why don't you Apple idolators simply admit the truth that 4G iPod quality is deplorable. Maybe if Apple hadn't outsourced iPod production to Chinese peasants and political prisoners quality would have been better.

There is nothing Chinese about it None of Apple products are manufactured in Asia. I know because my mom told me so.

So there.....

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RealityCheck wrote:
DawnTreader couldn't refute the ipodlounge survey results that proved 4G iPod quality problems are widespread, so he goes into a rant about Orsen Wells. Talk about shooting at the sky.

This is another gigantic I told you so. Why don't you Apple idolators simply admit the truth that 4G iPod quality is deplorable. Maybe if Apple hadn't outsourced iPod production to Chinese peasants and political prisoners quality would have been better.

RealityCheck, there's nothing to refute. In other words, get a life. Seriously.

The iPod Lounge has reported problems before. These issues were addressed in the last conference call with analysts.

If product problems were widespread Apple is obliged under the law to identify the issues, release a public advisory and provide an avenue for cost-free repair.

Until such time as an advisory is issued, I suggest finding better quality fiction than trolling discussion boards looking for problems.

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pyxl8 wrote:

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Guest wrote:
I want a job like that! I want to be able to just make stuff up be constantly wrong and still be paid. It's not fair!!

Try the Weather Channel

-Ken P

He he he...too funny. I have a question though. Is HP simply an Apple reseller when it comes to these iPods? If so, I didn't see any substantial markup on the website, so that would tell me that apple is splitting its margin on the pods w/ HP. Not the best way to make short-term $$, but a great way to get more product out there and increase revenue via ITMS. But since I wasn't asked for my input on this business model, I don't know. Does anyone have any idea?

So because 42% of the readers of a relatively small website, albeit a neat one devoted to the iPod, you believe automatically that there are wide-spread problems with the 4G iPod?
Take a statistics class or at least read a book, and you will find that small samples of people will legitimize any claim. Furthermore, you will learn that self-reported statistics are often the least valuable samples.
Thirdly, did you read the comments wereby a significant amount of people were noting no problems at all.
The 4G iPod might have a huge problem, but I notice that many other manufactures also have had problems, including the much vaunted Intel. The computer-market, and the peripherial, of which the iPod belongs, still have not matured and there is still a significant fault tolerance built into the market because of the inherent complexity that each of these devices have. The iPod not only contains a hard-drive, chips, display, speakers, etc. but it will be handled by people who may not be as careful as they should be.
The 4G iPod may be inherently flawed, but this is a worthless stastic.

But, as annoying as you are, you serve a useful purpose, you show the complete lack of subtitly that plagues the Mac-haters. You have a visceral emotional reaction towards Apple and those who like it, as if somehow you could stanch the creation and use of a product that somehow makes you foam at the mouth even if it's just a product.
You might consider counseling.

The "hPod" looks a lot like the regular iPod, but it turns out there is an user interface difference: You select playlists using Reverse Polish Notation.

Hey Realitychick,

I don't read this site much, but when I do, you seem to always manage to post something negative about Apple or their iPod.

What is it that you really want? Have you sent Apple an email with your concerns? Your constant trolling here seams pointless to me. And why here anyway?

Let me enlighten you: People think either you're:
1) Bitter or
2) pathetic.
3) Really despirate fpr some kind of attention, which is well... pathetic I guess...

"The expectation on the iPod is that HP's version will probably outsell Apple's version relatively quickly," [analyst Rob Enderle of market research firm Enderle Group] said, due to HP's broad distribution at electronics retailers.

----

I'm pretty sure that that is exactly why Apple is doing this. More exposure for the iPod without having to partner with a bunch of retailers.

They're the same iPods just in different packaging. HP is an iPod reseller. An HP sold iPod is an Apple sold iPod.

Most of time Mr Ederle says stupid thing about almost everything regarding Computing... but actually this one, we have to read it between lines... Well if HP outperform Apple, excelent news for Apple and Apple's Stock holders.

HP will pay Apple (premiun price for sure) for each iPod sold; if you want a tune, HP re-direct you to Apple iTunes
so this is almost risk free deal for Apple and selling cost is HP effort... So Bryan, just forget some of the Mr Ederle non-sense comments

http://www.powerdesignusa.com/products/ipod/index.php

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acdc1174 wrote:
He he he...too funny. I have a question though. Is HP simply an Apple reseller when it comes to these iPods? If so, I didn't see any substantial markup on the website, so that would tell me that apple is splitting its margin on the pods w/ HP. Not the best way to make short-term $$, but a great way to get more product out there and increase revenue via ITMS. But since I wasn't asked for my input on this business model, I don't know. Does anyone have any idea?

One important detail to notice is that HP is taking the responsibility of supporting these iPods. So that right there saves Apple some $ over an iPod that they sell. So that helps to offset the fact that HP is getting a cut. Plus HP is doing its own marketing too!

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acdc1174 wrote:
I have a question though. Is HP simply an Apple reseller when it comes to these iPods? If so, I didn't see any substantial markup on the website, so that would tell me that apple is splitting its margin on the pods w/ HP. Not the best way to make short-term $$, but a great way to get more product out there and increase revenue via ITMS.

My guess is that HP is reselling these iPods like any other chain -- Best Buy, CompUSA, MacConnection -- would resell them. Essentially Apple sells them wholesale to the reseller at a reduced price (but still making a profit) so the reseller can make a profit as well. Only difference with HP is it's a much bigger deal, so Apple is producing somewhat specialized iPods just for them to sell.

So yeah, Apple makes a bit less profit than if you bought it direct from them online or at an Apple Store. But the trade-off is that the iPod gets much more exposure (especially to people who don't browse in the Apple Store), more places for people to make impulse buys while they're out shopping, and more advertising (as in retail sales flyers, or HP's announcement today). In HP's case, the fact that HP is also taking on technical support is a bonus to Apple.

Everyone wins; honestly, neither company would have agreed to this partnership unless both had something to gain by it, both financially and perceptionwise. After all, not every company is Real.

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DawnTreader wrote:
The computer world is changing. We can either adapt and make use of the emerging products and technologies or remain ignorant and seek comfort in rumors, conspiracy theories and self-created illusions.

This would explain his ignoring surveys that use proper methodology with a large sample size (recent ones being PC Magazine, Consumer Reports and ACSI) and latching on to negative reports using a small number of people. How very sad.

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John F. Braun wrote:
This would explain his ignoring surveys that use proper methodology with a large sample size (recent ones being PC Magazine, Consumer Reports and ACSI) and latching on to negative reports using a small number of people. How very sad.

But how could that survey not be accurate? It's not like those individuals who DID have problems would be more motivated to take the survey than those who didn't have any problems. That sounds like a nice accurate data set to me!

Already Apple can't keep up with the accelerating demand for iPods - viz. the run on them in Japan and elsewhere. How on earth are they going to satisfy the enormous demand increase predicted by Enderle as a result of tapping a new big segment of the market?

James Kuipers

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kenaustus wrote:
The more iPods Apple sells the happier Apple will be. The only time Apple benefits is when you buy one directly from the Apple Store - all other sales are to resellers, including HP.

What? Apple still makes money when iPods are sold by resellers, be they Target, CompUSA, HP, etc.

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hulugu wrote:
But, as annoying as you are, you serve a useful purpose, you show the complete lack of subtitly that plagues the Mac-haters.

"Subtitly??!!!" Who would want any of THAT anyway?!!

(I nominate that post for Typo of the Month")

-Ken P

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Biff wrote:

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John F. Braun wrote:
This would explain his ignoring surveys that use proper methodology with a large sample size (recent ones being PC Magazine, Consumer Reports and ACSI) and latching on to negative reports using a small number of people. How very sad.

But how could that survey not be accurate? It's not like those individuals who DID have problems would be more motivated to take the survey than those who didn't have any problems. That sounds like a nice accurate data set to me!

It could easily not be accurate. Whenever I have a product go bad on me, I tell everyone about it. When a product does what it is supposed to do, I hardly ever tell anyone. Complainers always get much more publicity. Negativity Sells.

In theory, Apple can make a little more by selling the ipod themselves only but if you factor in the "free" PR, marketing from Hp, Hp's website and Tv ads, it's worth it.

Apple can also drive costs lower because they are not bearing the full burden of having to sell the entire marketplace.

As much as we don't need validation, plenty of PC people still think of Apple as 'the weird computer.' This is really a stamp of approval from a company they trust (I believe their printer market share is around 45%) and know. You'd be surprised at the number of people who cannot figure out how to get their CD tracks into an mp3 player - so while they want to join the mp3 revolution - they just don't quite know what to make of Apple. It's either 'out of their league' or dismissed as a 'not-a-PC company" so while people might be intimdated to go into an Apple/Tiffany store - HP is more like Macy's.

While I'm not going to wrap my ipod, the tattoo still looks like a cool idea - so they're thinking already! It's only good for us.

Enderle is to the media what RC is to TMO forums, always good for a chuckle.
Always trust them to find something inane to say about Apple and its products. Thank God for them; without them life would be dull.
GO RRob CEnderle ! You’re the A-Team of irrelevance !

"political prisoners" shoots your credibility to hell. Where's the "reality"? Cite some reports that Apple is using "peasants" and "political prisoners". RC should be named RDF as your Reality is uniquely your own. I can't even imagine what a litte litte life you have that you need to go to a Mac website to troll. Who are you going to convert? They're fanatics by you own admission. Fanaticism by definition is irrationally based, so why try to reason with fanatics? It's pure idiocy. If you think Mac fanatics need a "reality check", you really need to look in the mirror if you think trolling amongst fanatics makes any sense. Who's the bigger fool?

A closer look at this idiots dumb comment just shows how stupid he really is !!

How can HP ever sell more iPods than Apple ?? .... Think about it... Is Apple GIVING truckloads of iPods to HP to sell to the general public ??

uhhhhh ..... I dont think so

Apple is selling truckloads of iPods to HP ... and in turn ... HP will put their logo on them... and "re-sell" them ...

So... bottom line ..... Apple will always be selling more iPods than HP...

Doesnt this remind you of the Michael Dell / iPod experiement ??

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jimothy wrote:
The "hPod" looks a lot like the regular iPod, but it turns out there is an user interface difference: You select playlists using Reverse Polish Notation.

I remember the first HP calculators. 1 ENTER 2 PLUS EQUALS, IIRC.
Thanks for the trip down the twisted memory lane.

Great post jimothy! I love it!
I like RPN. I remember fondly entering matrices in RPN for my linear algebra classes. Those were the days...I still use my hp calculator with RPN daily too!

Maybe Apple can license the iPod to Microsoft and they can then redo the interface so that users have to control it through Visual Basic or maybe some good ole' retro DOS commands! LOL!